Matthew Taylor in conversation with... Strategic HR
I think we
are failing
people
big time.
There’s
no link
between
what gets
taught and
the world
of work
looking for a job could just quickly
check out the employers’ scores?
AP: Absolutely that’s the right thing to
do as long as you’re measuring apples
and apples. However, already anyone
can go on Glassdoor.
MT: Do you think that Glassdoor’s
guiding people’s choices?
AP: I know it is.
MT: So in a sense all the money we
might spend on marketing to recruit
talent, to go to university grad shows…
that’s all a bit passé really?
AP: They’re not solely listening to
the wisdom of the crowd. And it’s a bit
like TripAdvisor; you’ve got to ignore
the extremes. But it is definitely a
powerful tool.
MT: You’ve worked in retail, in
finance… But also you’re on the
boards of a couple of charities. What
have you noticed about the different
cultures? For example I think most
would assume finance is high reward
low support…
AP: When I worked in finance it was
the late ‘80s. They opened the doors
MT: And did you find it harder in
that environment to talk about the
softer end of things rather than just
financial incentives?
AP: If people were going to go they
just threw money at them; they used
money as an answer to an awful lot
of problems.
MT: With your values you must have
had to be a bit subversive in that
environment to say ‘look humans aren’t
quite as simple as this’.
AP: Yes, though I was quite young.
And it was such a competitive climate;
everyone was going after the same
people. Things like engagement just
didn’t exist. And I didn’t stay that long.
MT: How about the third sector? My
experience is that people can spend
quite a lot of time talking about
whether or not they are perfect in
themselves, when they ought to be
talking about the change they want
to achieve.
AP: The advice I tend to give as a
charity board trustee is: just focus on
doing two or three things really well…
For example Step Up to Serve is a
charity founded to get people involved
in social action and it ends in 2020. So
I’m saying ‘what’s your legacy going to
really hard message for them.
MT: I bet it is. My board says that to
me and I fiercely resist it… Have you
any experience in HR in the public
sector, and do you acknowledge that it’s
a more complex environment?
AP: I chair the advisory board of
Sheffield University Management
School. It’s not public sector but it is of
sorts. I find it really interesting that it is
measured by the quality of its research
not by how many of its students are
employable at the end of their
qualification. I’m scratching my head
saying ‘surely this can’t be right?’
MT: So you feel the education
system is not terribly well-aligned to
business needs?
AP: I think we are failing people big
time. There’s no link between what gets
taught in the curriculum and the world
of work. And I think business,
government and education need to
work much more closely together.
I met a young unemployed graduate
recently who had a first-class honours
business degree and had set up his own
business employing three people. Then
his cousin set up a bigger Asian
wedding business so he went out of
business. He effectively said to me ‘I’ve
failed’. I said ‘what I’ve heard is smart
student, entrepreneur, employed three
hrmagazine.co.uk June 2019 HR 33
Photography: Leo Wilkinson
and the money just basically came in,
and then the bottom dropped out of
the market and everyone lost their jobs.
be? Don’t do anything new’. That’s a
/hrmagazine.co.uk